SHAKESPEARE & ENNEAGRAM EXPLORE CHARACTER
INSIDE AND OUT
DIG DEEP HERE
SUSTAINERS MAKE MAGIC MONTHLY CREATE DELIGHT WITH AN EASY, SUSTAINING MONTHLY GIFT GREEN TEA & LITTLE GREEN TEA DISCOVER MORE OUR YOUTH PROGRAMS
MAKE LEADERS OF IMPACT,
EMPATHY, & GOOD WILL
THE
SWEET TEA SHAKESPEARE
HOURS
PODCASTS, STREAMING PRODUCTIONS, LIVE MUSIC, AUDIO DRAMAS, & MORE

The Sweet Tea Shakespeare Hours After Hours | Sandwiches, Cobra Kai, Norwegian Television

Rob and Jeremy talk about what they’ve been watching. And eating. But mostly they talk about comedian and guru Pete Holmes.
Patreon members get exclusive access to the official Cocktail Hours live stream, where patrons get to choose the content and interact with  the hosts. Join us there at patreon.com/sweetteashakes. We are a 501(c)3 charitable  organization.
Contact us at hours@sweetteashakespeare.com
The show is produced by Claire Martin and Jeremy Fiebig.
Our Director of Engagement is Ashanti Bennett. Jen Pommerenke and Julie Schaefer also assisted with this episode.
This project is supported by the Arts Council in part by contributions from businesses and individuals, and through grants from  the City of Fayetteville, Cumberland County and the North Carolina Arts  Council, a division of the Department of Natural & Cultural  Resources.
We’re here to tell you about one of our sponsors. Anchor if you haven’t heard about Anchor, you should know it’s, The easiest way to make a podcast. We’re using it even now to make this very podcast. Let me explain why Anchor is so great. First of all, there’s a Shakespeare connection. There is a very famous Anchor pub, just a stones throw away from Shakespeare globe in London. Next to you should know that Anchor is free. There are a creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast, right from your phone or computer.

0

00:00:30
And we’ve done both today. Anchor we’ll distribute your podcast for you hassle-free so it can be heard automatically on Spotify, Apple podcast, and many more platforms where your listeners will find it. You can make money from your podcast through Anchor with no minimum listenership, it’s everything you need to make a podcast all in one place it’s super easy, and we could not recommend it more highly to get Anchor download the free Anchor app or go to anchor.fm to get started.

1

00:01:07
Welcome to the Sweet Tea Shakespeare After Hours where we offer you in depth conversations, insider insights, and a sneak peek behind the scenes.

0

00:01:25
How’s it going? I’m great. How are you? I am fine. I guess. Sure. Let’s say fine. A very busy trying to juggle various aspects of life, you know, which is stressful and whatnot, but doing all right. Good. Doing all right. Happy to be here today to talk about various things.

0

00:01:56
We’re going to talk about the things. Yes we are. How are you doing? You know what I’m doing? Okay. Actually, I really am doing OK. The, so you may know that I live on a college campus and earlier this week, that college campus was a shut down is not there. So they did not shut down, but they have gone under like stricter controls. So you must wear a mask outside and classes aren’t meeting face to face.

0

00:02:28
So there are some things happening. Got it. You know, it’s, it’s a little bit more apocalyptic, like 15% more apocalyptic. See, I think owing to the different States, the two of us live to live in. I’ve been living at 15% more apocalyptic. We’re catching up the South so we can like, the skin is a sticker here. Yeah. Let’s say that’s what it is.

0

00:02:59
Sure.

2

00:03:00
I don’t have an argument with that. Whatever, in any case, like my family lives in Texas too, so they’re like blindly going on with life and lots of ways. And I’m like, Oh, I liked that. Where I live. We can argue about why that is, I suppose. But why do that when there are so many other things to talk about in the world, indeed. Yeah.

0

00:03:24
What else is going on? You know, just trying to figure out life.

2

00:03:30
Yeah. It’s a struggle for all of us while I’m trying to do the same thing, a number of different fronts right now, trying to keep things afloat. The various balls in the air, as it were while in many respects, the world continues to crumble around us with the apocalyptic game.

0

00:03:53
You know, I, I found myself this week haunted by one of our earlier podcasts, like thinking, Oh, maybe,

2

00:04:03
And maybe, maybe Rob was right. Maybe the apocalypse is going to happen. Maybe, maybe it’s not.

0

00:04:13
Okay.

2

00:04:13
I feel like that’s an important thing to think about if only because it does have a certain motivating factor to a financial way, like things could actually not workout is to try and make them work.

0

00:04:26
Yeah. I a, I, I made some more donations to political campaigns is this week.

2

00:04:34
Yeah. Fingers crossed. It’s this weird world that we’re living in where I feel like at any given moment, I’m either massively overreacting to what’s happening or massively under-reacting too it. And what one of those things is true. And it’s impossible to know which one until after the moment when you should have done something has past, and you’ll either know you did the right thing or you massively overreacted or massively under reacted.

2

00:05:06
And there is no way to no, it in the moment I feel like that’s the state of play. Right. For sure. So for sure. Anyway, we’ve got a number of different things that we were planning on talking about today is why don’t we dive in? Our the first topic which you suggested? Actually, it was a little surprised because this is something that independent of each other, we were both somewhat familiar with in fog.

2

00:05:39
And that is mr. Pete Holmes is interesting career. If you want to talk a little bit about that. Oh my gosh.

0

00:05:44
I think I’ve become a, a top to bottom Pete Holmes fan boy. I did. I didn’t know his work super well. I mean, I caught and some specials and some things like that here and there, but, but I do watch a lot of standup and he was sort of one of many, and I think I got actually turned onto him through the liturgy a podcast, or has been a guest a few times and had some things to say that were like not funny at all.

0

00:06:21
And I’m, I’m used to, I’m used to hearing interviews with, with the comedians or whoever who, who don’t get into that, but he was going to like a really like familiar, I think, spiritual place for a lot of people. And so I started listening to as podcast and low and behold, he is sort of conducting like a, I don’t know what you would call it. It’s I mean, it’s, it’s his podcast, his conversations with I’m with other comics and entertainers.

0

00:06:55
And And a spiritual leaders at times. And it’s like, I don’t know. He’s like a teacher now he’s like in a, in a sort of post enlightenment phase of his life. And he is, he’s teaching people about sort of mindfulness, Buddhists practice stuff with Ron DAS psychedelics. And it’s, it’s pretty deep and pretty good actually.

0

00:07:25
Umm, I get a lot of help out of listening to him. And then so, so he talks on the podcast, which is called you make it weird. He talks about his show crashing and that’s how I kinda got turned onto it. So I binged it a with my wife, Nan, I don’t know, a couple weeks ago, like we could not stop watching it and think it’s just pretty fantastic. It’s a, it’s a, a treatment on him coming up in the, the standup comic scene in New York and in features a lot of other comics and like SNL alums and things of that nature kind of helping and tell a story.

0

00:08:11
So yeah, and it’s, it’s really good kind of charming deals with some of his, a fundamentalist religious upbringing, which really defines sort of how he approaches the world. Now I’m not, he’s not a fundamentalist to sort of move past it, but he refers back to that point. That, and I just think his he’s interesting right now because he’s, he’s one of the very few people in popular culture who is sort of bringing what I think is an authentic spirituality, a to the fore in a, in a way that’s not Oprah.

0

00:08:48
I mean, Oprah is the other person that’s doing that. You know what I mean? And he’s, he’s a, he’s different.

2

00:08:56
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s true. Is it that his project is his spirituality sort of writ large as is interesting. And that, that clearly is the thing that he keeps returning to throughout his career. I I’m aware of Pete Holmes I have existed here in Los Angeles sort of at times on the sort of far outer reaches of the comedy community. So I know a lot of people who know him and we have some overlapping overlapping acquaintance circles, I guess would be the thing to say, so there are two degrees away, something like that, right.

2

00:09:41
It, and using the, a, the Kevin bacon scale. And so I, I’ve never met Pete Holmes before But have this funny sort of I, whatever, it’s not, it’s nothing special. It’s just, I probably a lot to people who, who know of in sort of no, a lot of people in common. So through his, the comedy career, in his podcast in particular, it’s like, Oh, look, there’s been a person I know talking to Pete Holmes. And I became aware of him a number of years ago, I guess, sort of in that way and the way that comedy works in LA, everybody who does podcasts.

2

00:10:22
And so I first became aware of him on other people’s podcasts, like a, I think like hearing a early on And and also, yeah, just as he became more famous, he’s had an interesting career trajectory, a in that he’s been a standup comic, he was an artist for the new Yorker. He liked did not a, that he was a freelance comic writer for a cartoon artist for the new Yorker, had a lot of cartoons that were published by the, for a while.

2

00:11:03
And then he had a short live talk show that was based out of Los Angeles that was produced by Conan O’Brien. And for two years, Conan was his lead in on TBS. And he had this funny little talk show and funny little is probably the best way to describe it because it occupied this weird space between traditional, you know, guy gets up and does a monologue talk show and has guests that he interviews, but it was like far more casual.

2

00:11:42
It was trying to sort of straddle these to start a more casual survey. Here’s the sketch. And we’ll do kinda what we feel like doing, and his monologues were, were very loose, but it also sort of follow that framework still. And the interesting show, he particularly did a lot of video game parity, sketches and stuff, and were a superhero things like he, you know, with his pop culture interests and it didn’t end up working out in the longterm.

2

00:12:16
But then after that, he got his HBO show, which Judd Apatow directed or not directly produced and sort of spearheaded with him as a creative partner. And that was crashing, which lasted for two seasons, three seasons, three seasons, right. Three seasons as well. And the through line or the one consistent thing, as you mentioned through all of this was his podcast. You made it weird. And he has a, you know, that not really as the place where his spirituality, I mean, his spirituality is always been a part of his act to a certain degree.

2

00:12:54
Like, you know, he really mind his, a conservative Christian religious background, a lot in his comedy. It’s a big reference point, but then he talks about it in a more open and serious way and his in his podcast. And that is an interesting show. You know, he’s developed a real community around it, which is a thing that podcasts allow you to do, they get you the, they let you know the person to a large degree and has kind of made that the focal point of, of who he is in a where in a weird way.

2

00:13:34
So that, that feels like kind of the main, his way, the main thing, even though he has these much more sort of mainstream outlets or has over time, like he had a TV show, a talk show that he had a, you know, actual, a scripted show on HBO M and E does in normal times tour as a comedian. But that podcast really seems to define him in his, his mission.

2

00:14:04
And that’s kind of an interesting thing. That’s not entirely unique in the world of, of a comedian’s particularly like most comedians do have a podcast now, but what is striking for a guy and who has, you know, touched the levels of success that he has, which is to say had multiple national television programs while at the same time, maintaining this is odd little podcast where he goes into, you know, in depth interviews, as you said, with entertainers in comedians, primarily, but the guy’s also a spiritual people and play spirituality tends to be the focal point of those discussions along with sort of, you know, Mark Martin style.

2

00:14:49
Where do you come from? Tell me about your life of thing, but then with a real serious emphasis on of the spiritual is yeah, I think, I think, you know, Marin Martin seems to be more interested in sort of politics. I love Marin’s interviews. I mean, he can get deep, like quickly. He’s a good interviewer, right? He is. He’s really, really good at that. But well Holmes is doing for me is, is, is pretty different. I mean, it is different it’s conversations is not, I w you know where I suppose Mark Marin oddly, and I’ve heard him say this before on his podcast, sort of without ever having tried for it specifically turned out to have a very strong, like scale as an interviewer, like in a journalistic sense almost, you know, like he just has this capacity for it, which surprised him even.

2

00:15:42
And that really kind of seems to be it. And he does kind of have a specific thing that he’s mining, which is like the history of entertainers in a specific comedians career. So there is a real thrust or what his interviews were about, and they do in some ways, feel a little more journalistic, even though the conversational, but there are Pete Holmes is not had no journalistic agenda. And his in his interview is there, there really are conversations where he’s like trying to get to the pink and gushy Senator of whoever he is that he’s talking at the end point to the other thing that I’m, that is sort of one of his theses or his MOS, is that he’s really interested.

2

00:16:30
And he sort of staked his claim as a comedian, as someone who does not want to get into it. He doesn’t want to be mean, which is not to say he isn’t, but he, yeah, that’s an interesting duality. So he, he, he builds what I think is his a mostly earnest brand around the idea that he, he doesn’t need to go the, the sorta dirty foul route. He is trying to be sweet and nice and, and all of that.

2

00:17:03
He, I think he struggles with it, but I think that’s his, his approach to the world or his lens on both comedy wise and in terms of his podcasts. Yeah. I think that’s true, but you know, what you’re, what you’re saying does indicate an interesting, I don’t know, duality a contradiction, maybe a, an ambivalence within him as a, as a figure, because there is this sort of, you know, him being a nice guy as a part of his persona, but he does interesting things to undermine that and play with it, you know, and he is a comedian and as a culture, comedians are mean people and, you know, among each other, they’re kind of mean, and that’s part of a language like a hostility.

2

00:17:55
And, you know, also just comedians are darker in their humor than civilians are. And he definitely has that impulse as well and understands that, but it is filtered through this background of, I was raised to be a nice little boy, which is still clearly sort of primal tug is within him. And. And a lot of his project seems to be about interrogating that, that need within herself and also separating himself from it But and then analyzing it in a way that allows me to still be a moral person.

2

00:18:32
You know, if he really does grapple with those moral questions, it’s like, eh, as a comedian specifically, another aspect of Pete Holmes that is related to that and, and offers an interesting contradiction is he’s an intensely ambitious man. And for somebody who is his self presentation often is about being spiritual and a little touchy, feely, and trying to sort of take the world as it is.

2

00:19:12
And all this, he is a person who just by virtue of his career, which is much, much more storied than many of his peers, who is his comedy, a buddies, some of whom I know personally, you know, he, this is a man who is clearly has a really driving ambition to be a professionally successful entertainer.

2

00:19:43
You know what I mean? And has through really, I mean, through town, he is a talented comedian. To me, it’s important to say that, you know, he, his, his joke structure is a really solid, his persona is extremely well defined and developed. You know, he has, are really a real agility with a crowd working with it and talking to people and is a really perceptive guy. So he’s a, he’s a super talented comedian, but I would say not necessarily given the, the Heights that in his career has risen too.

2

00:20:21
There are people of comparable talent who have not done as much as him as comics. And I think that that really is owing to him having a real laser focus on his career in a way that sets him apart from a lot of other people that get And. And that’s interesting when paired with his, I’m a nice boy, you know, spiritualist thing, because in our, in the entertainment industry, if you’re that guy there, you have a real hard, frankly, unpleasant quarter to you on some which I think he’s aware of.

2

00:21:03
And I don’t mean to say that it makes him funny and he does grapple with that openly, but it’s an interesting contradiction about him and something that I’m always struck by. It’s like, you know, for a guy who is all about sort of the spiritual, you don’t fight a lot of people like that who have been the host, have a national talk show of hands, had a TV series about their own life on HBO know. Well, and, and what I appreciated about the show is that he is, he’s aware enough of sort of what’s at play within himself and his story that that’s the, that’s the exploration of the show.

2

00:21:43
So when you’re talking about his sort of the tension between his sort of good boy persona and his sort of naked ambition, you see that play out in the show, it is that’s texted in the series, but that is fair and what not, but I mean, it takes us very, you know, somebody with a real steely-eyed understanding of themselves to even know that that’s a vein worth mining. That that’s interesting, you know, he, he is a multi dimensional person as we all are, but who really like Rebel’s in those contradictions and who is interested in playing a game out on a big stage.

2

00:22:24
A and I, I say this as somebody who, you know, works at the Arts And is a part of my project is to, you know, express myself and to put things out there as well. So I don’t say this with judgment, that it would have been applied to myself and they do, but, and frankly, this is something I feel about all entertainers, a certain degree, there’s a slightly crazy aspect to it as well. Like The the exploitation business of like the willingness to explore your own personal sort of experience and, and, you know, throw it out there so publicly, but to speak something that I’m always uncomfortable within myself and in our, in our business where at large, you know, the, of the business is a matter of payment and a and artistic expression, which is there something that I fully talk to you is within me, but that they find somewhat off putting in about the impulse to live here.

2

00:23:31
I’m going to be show you every single thing about bait and is it is so interesting that I will interrogate this in front of everybody and look me interrogating my discomfort with it. He is more interesting to please love me, you know, which, which is

0

00:23:49
A interesting thing to say about my more sort of civical moments makes me feel like I’m just, is everybody just a horrible narcissist is to who is famous? Is that all at this is, I don’t know,

2

00:24:04
But at least he seems to be grappling with that question openly, which is, you know, points for that. Yeah.

0

00:24:11
I can’t, I can’t tell. I mean, so I, I, I think I agree with you that the, the narrative of his career is certainly ambitious and he’s, he’s very aware of that. I don’t think you keep producing a podcast and, and sort of taking on these projects. I mean, he, he’s a proud rider of the Simpsons from time to time, unless, unless you, you have that drive at the same time.

0

00:24:49
And I mean, I don’t, I mean, I think, you know, probably everyone who reaches out level has, has a version of that and, you know, and stand up comedy as a, as a culture is a place where you, you know, you, your personality, your life, the inside of you is The is the brand, is the issue, is the thing you’re talking about in a fairly <inaudible> way.

0

00:25:23
Some people do it kinda through characters and, you know, but, or a persona rather But with Holmes. I think its less of a persona, if that makes sense. Does it? Yeah.

2

00:25:35
Well that’s <inaudible>

0

00:25:38
Through your onstage is close to who you actually are or OD is frustrated at a certain dimension of, of you. And I think that is true. Yeah. And I think what’s interesting to me is, is that he has spun it wisely definitely a into this sort of secondary career. So there’s the sort of Hollywood side, a in terms of writing, acting, stand up, producing that kind of thing.

0

00:26:10
And then he’s also spun it into being a fairly credible, a religious teacher, spiritual teacher who, who can hang in those conversations and is actually driving some of those conversations on the spiritual side. And I don’t see, well, I won’t say anybody else in Hollywood doing that same thing. I don’t think, I mean not. And a Tom cruise is probably the, he’s

2

00:26:44
A weirdo also Tom cruise, doesn’t speak publicly about that aspect of his life. Really. So that is a different thing. I mean, I’m trying to think like Gwyneth Paltrow to a certain degree, you can make that argument of, you know, she has her lifestyle brand that is, you know, delves into the spiritual has some overlap with the sort of, you know, veins that, that a Pete Holmes is mining.

2

00:27:13
Umm, but there aren’t many of your right end in comedy is it’s is particularly unusual. I guess. I don’t know, Duncan Trussell, who we talked about a while ago on of the same program, a his, his work does sorta go in that direction to some degree to from which is his show, the midnight gospel Braun on Netflix.

2

00:27:43
But yeah, I mean homes is a little, is much more that’s a little bit more freewheeling and crazy Holmes seems much more centered in that end is, you know, what’s interesting to me about him, you know, eh, as a guy who really did react hard against his religious sort of is his Christian religion, religious upbringing, he really latched onto another form of spirituality that while superficially is much less structured and rigorous or you know, as much less structured, still does have like a real core of, of, you know, there are teachers that’s not like programatic in the same way that, you know, most Christian a religious organizations are, but you know, he’s, he’s clearly looking for teachers to some degree and seems interested in finding a framework on which, you know, with which he can sort of interpret reality.

0

00:28:59
Yeah. If you enjoy the work of Sweet Tea, Shakespeare the number one thing you can do is log on to patreon.com/sweet Tea Shakespeare and make a monthly pledge. Those pledges start at $5 a and they go up to $500. Actually you can set whatever amount you want at certain levels. There are great perks, including in-person tickets a and those include all digital access, but that is the greatest way that you can show support to Sweet Tea Shakespeare and help us continue to do the work of this podcast in so many of the other things that we do throughout the year.

0

00:29:42
I w now’s the time I should say that, that, although my background is not as fundamentalists as Pete Holmes I think grow in a fairly I’m a conservative church, Southern Baptist. And my father was up a youth pastor in a pastor growing up. And so I, I like there were a couple of episodes of crashing, particularly on a third season where he takes his girlfriend to a, to his church.

0

00:30:15
And I was like, I looked over at Nan and I, I told her I was having a very triggering experience because it was, it I’m really, really familiar with where he comes from and I identify with it strongly and where he’s landed now, I think, is it it’s, I mean, it does hit on sort of the sort of new age spirituality. I don’t know what that term means really, except it’s like universalism, cosmic consciousness and enlightenment that burrows a good deal from a Eastern philosophy and, and is born really out of the sixties and, and psychedelic movement and a variety of other things.

0

00:31:03
But he also grounds it back into what is essentially a pretty conventional, fairly classic, straight up sort of main line Christian worldview that is unlike, say Gwenyth Paltrow and unlike Oprah, about 95% of the time who keep it broad and sort of applicable to everyone he’s working in a little bit narrower space and is able to do it.

0

00:31:35
I think it, by the connections he’s making from his personal experience in the church to some of the connections he’s made in Buddhism or in sort of more progressive forms of Christianity or in a sort of more generic, spiritual experience. I just think that’s pretty much,

2

00:31:58
Yeah, that is interesting. And to, and that’s a, that’s a good point. I mean, again, his self awareness is such that he, you know, Claire, he, he knows this and he does again, is it becomes texted in his image, show a bullet on HBO and in his podcast where, you know, he is consciously, it seems like trying to draw parallels and Mary The a spirituality that he was, you know, raised with, with what he’s come too in his later life and sort of finding a consistent themes and threads to follow through through both of those.

2

00:32:38
And that’s an interesting discussion too. You know, he, it is, it’s a unique thing that he’s doing, umm, which is to find somebody who comes from, which is to be somebody from a, an American conservative religious background who really moved into again to use the shorthand that you were using sort of new age, spiritual practice.

2

00:33:08
And then, and, and then like really focusing hard on the transition. You know, I, I suspect that there are a lot of people who will get, who live in this new age world who did come from Christian backgrounds. But what’s interesting about, about Holmes is that like analyzing the transition is really important to him. And in some ways, you know, that’s attributable to the fact that he’s a comedian, cause that’s what comedians do they go back in their life.

2

00:33:41
And then they like really zoom in hard on it and pick it apart on a really granular level to see what’s interesting or hopefully funny if they’re doing it upon stage. But I think that that, that impulse, which is the comedian’s impulse has created this interesting little niche for himself in that respect. Yeah.

0

00:34:06
I would say that the work of his podcast right now is still I’m in the transition. I mean, he knows he’s in it somewhere, maybe a little bit farther along and he knows that and is sort of looking back at the people listening and, and like working, as I said earlier as a teacher, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a very different, had a posture than his standup work. And I just think it’s interesting.

0

00:34:38
And also I would just say Our to go back to crashing for a second. The show is hilariously funny, the work in particularly where I think the show really shines is his in the exploration of the standup world and letting the standup characters, some of whom are themselves kind of riff and shine. I think it’s, it’s, it’s pretty great.

2

00:35:09
Yeah. Yeah. The he, that, that is an interesting thing to see on that show. It’s part of an interesting trend as well, of comedians on a certain Stripe, like making autobiographical movies about their own lives, like a similar, in some ways to Kumail Nanjiani is moving the big sick Kumail who happens to be a really good friend of Pete Holmes as well. Like they both came together and the standup trenches to a large degree, you know, he did a similar thing and it’s funny that there is a movie like Camille’s moving and Holmes is a, a TV show are both like set 10 years in the past, essentially 10 to 15 years earlier and yet their playing themselves and the contemporary thing, which, which is kind of interesting.

2

00:36:05
But yeah, I, I, you know, comedian’s in comedy that the world of comedy for the last 10 years or so has really been enjoying this, this place in our culture where they’ve, you know, comedians have a sort of self-consciously taken on the The role of, or I’ve been recognized as being like truth tellers or something like that.

2

00:36:39
And a lot of that has to do with sort of this self analyzing self lacerating, very truthful approach to comedy that has been in Vogue at winch Pete Holmes for instance, it is definitely a, a, an adherent to what’s interesting is that moment seems to be ending a, in some interesting ways. I think really in the last two or three years, it’s been accelerating, like the question of a, you know, the, the license has been given to comedians to be the court jester who can do rude things and it’s tolerated because they are a, because they, you know, Our the philosopher heroes who tell us, you know, the truth that license is being stripped away, like to a large degree, you know, as there’s this whole rash of, especially broey comedians getting like their careers rightfully ended for abusive, terrible behavior.

2

00:37:53
But it’s interesting too. It’s something that, you know, it’s interesting to see somebody like Pete Holmes who has existed, who in that world and has, you know, sort of taken that license to some degree, but also seems interested in interrogating it. I, I do believe that if a fourth season of that show had come to pass the conversation almost certainly would of ended up being like a, in that show him the focus would of been about, like, to use the phrase, cancel culture within the world of comedy and, and whatnot, which is an interesting thing for a guy like Pete, Holmes, who’s again, persona is very much the duality of like, I’m a good boy, but then I’m transgressive against those good boy instincts.

2

00:38:46
And it’ll be interesting in the coming years, as you know, we go through the moment we’re in to see how how’s, how he, how he never it is that because being transgressive is harder, harder, and they may be him leading us to sort of the more how to bash in spiritual stuff without, you know, perhaps that’ll just be the way that it goes.

2

00:39:23
Be interesting. I dunno, there’s a weird came to make sure it’s alright. This is good. I mean, yeah. I think, I think you’re right. I’m into the story of a standup comedy right now, his, the, the, the standup comic feeling like they’re policed and sometimes need to be actually being policed. Yeah. And, you know, and for me, there was a, there’s a line I can draw between sort of off stage behavior a, of the Louis C K style and what you can say on stage, which I, I, I tend to fall almost in line with, with the Dave Chappelle argument there, which is, you can say whatever you want from the stage should be able to say anything, but this is the last way.

2

00:40:18
Wait, is the last little, not even comedy’s special. He has, it is. This is the last place for open debate in America. Yeah. And I do think he’s subject Chappelle, for instance, This, I think the criticisms I get some are fair, but he also Perry’s them reasonably well as well. I mean, then he makes them part of his act. And I think that conversation is fine. I mean, I think what he says, it’s fair and what not fair, but it’s is, it is I’m allowed.

2

00:40:51
And what people say to him is allowed, and that conversation is, you know, he’s making, it’s a material and they argue that’s a worthwhile conversation to be having it is important for someone to be able to be able to have a discussion is the argument, there are cameras. So you guys are going back to, you know, crashing. What’s interesting about that. As you know, Pete, Holmes, Occupy’s this space that one wood and they used to be called alt comedy though, the division between that, or kind of, you know, a I’ve been erased some way what’s striking about crashing is that that takes place through the New York club comedy’s seen in the modern New York club comedy scene.

2

00:41:34
And the comics who he’s interacting with there are not your, a sort of touchy feeling, all comics, which is a more LA based or a West coast sort of tradition, which again is really an idea of, you know, the last 20 years just went, all comedy became a buzz word. There has been a slow, he is he’s in that camp and to some degree, but, you know, he comes up with the sort of the mean and angry New York comics who it, and maybe that’s really part of the project too, is saying that the de the, the classification between what you would call at an all comic, who is more sort of ideologically or, or dispositionally liberal, and the sort of, you know, new Yorky club comics, that that’s not a real distinction.

2

00:42:36
And then if it really allows us the same thing, which is a comedian, when they are again, what does that mean? Going forward to an interesting question, and I’m sure he will address it in interesting ways. Cause he’s a smart guy. Okay. We did it. We did it pay Holmes when you saw it saw that is not true just in case anybody.

2

00:43:08
And there’s much more to talk about with everybody, but we’re going to move on. Cause we have a limited amount of time. The other thing that we we’re going to discuss today, umm, are some recommendations for Television shows that we had been watching and that are available to be watched. So Jeremy why don’t you get that out for a share? I’ve been a, I’ve been watching a lot of Norwegian Television I basically finished crashing and then fell into a Norwegian Television hole.

2

00:43:41
And so actually I just finished a great show from, I think it’s four years old, 2016 called no bell. It’s a nice little action series. It’s it’s it’s sort of half set in Afghanistan and a half set in a Norway. Umm, it’s a, it’s a very Tom Clancy it’s it’s it sort of follows a soldier who is, who is coming back from Afghanistan after a mission went awry and the political fallout is happening and, and he gets himself sort of into some drama at home.

2

00:44:31
And so it’s, but it’s,

0

00:44:32
It’s, it’s really great. Pretty suspenseful acting is pretty solid. The writing’s pretty solid. And I just, I just liked it. I I’m finished at, in about three nights. I think it’s eight or nine episodes and a, this is really a really good I’ll actually he he’s a, he’s he’s a special operator in the Norwegian army and they’re basically patrolling a district in Afghanistan and there, there are caught in an ambush and he has to make a call to violate the terms of engagement and, and that he has filmed.

0

00:45:24
And so when he comes home, he, he and his unit are sort of caught in that PR disaster. His wife is the chief of staff for the Norwegian foreign minister who is caught up in a web of folks trying to apply for the Nobel prize and the different interests like humanitarian groups and governmental interests, all sort of working against and with each other, the sort of solve the Afghanistan crisis as a whole.

0

00:45:58
And also when themselves a Nobel prize and also put away this series of progressively worse PR disasters, a including a The that the main character Earling is, is called upon to kill an Afghan, a landowner who is come to a Oslo and he does.

0

00:46:29
So he kills him in a parking garage and that’s also filmed and becomes one of the PR disasters. Yeah, it’s bad. It’s a very bad <inaudible> and And and sorting through who actually gave the order and all of that. It’s got a very, I don’t know, it feels like, like the good, like when 24 was good, it feels like that it feels like all the Harrison Ford action movies and a, and a touch of a zero dark 30.

0

00:47:03
And I think deal’s pretty honestly with a, with characters. I mean, all of these characters with the exception of one or two, I think work is three dimensional figures and you see some of these soldiers coming back with PTSD and, and other things in their working through the, the adjustment to come back to civilian life. So you see that play

2

00:47:30
Out in addition to the pretty intriguing plot. Yeah. I think it’s interesting to watch political thrillers like that. I’m from different countries just to see what is the shame as the entertainment we get here and the us. So on those different, you know, I haven’t seen the show interesting about what you described is the sort of parallel a 24.

2

00:48:01
And yet this is the mention of this. Obviously she is, is not in American and is curious to me than they used the same conceit. This person was caught on a, on a, in a mediator doing, doing things that then became publicly decried in the, in the world of the show.

2

00:48:31
And she is a, is the point of view of the series that what he was doing, both of those cases were justified things, which the media representation doesn’t give enough in your text or that’s where, where the, the, the riding mostly takes us is the, they knew, or they had the context, all of that.

2

00:49:04
And that does play out pretty strongly. But umm, but the other thing is that you see, I think a and R in what lands is a pretty authentic way, the real cost of that on the individuals involved, like regardless of the call, they made the main character in and in the opening sequence of the series assassinates what’s the central and a 12 or 13 or 14 year old boy in a public square are in Afghanistan, a who is wearing a suicide vest.

2

00:49:38
And you see like that, that’s the kind of right choice that gets made a But it comes with a heavy cost on. Right, right. So it’s, it’s in, it, it, it plays with both of those, both of those things, you know, the media and the politicians don’t understand and our playing a different game. And so, so there is a lens that sympathetic to the soldier, but also that, that those very things are what are corrupting lives, marriages, parental relationships, and all sorts of other things.

2

00:50:23
You can see that play out as well. That’s fascinating. Well, where can you find this show? This

0

00:50:28
Is on Netflix. It’s a,

2

00:50:31
What is it produced by Netflix, Netflix original? Or is this something that they

0

00:50:36
Don’t think it’s a Netflix original? I think it was, it was in Europe, it at one of the European equivalent of the, you know, Emmy and yeah. And, and I think Netflix took it from there. Yeah.

2

00:50:53
Yeah. That’s interesting thinking of a lot of acquisitions like that, but I am also interested in how many original pieces is produced in various countries, which is making these days. This is <inaudible> to talk about it.

0

00:51:08
And the other show I’ve been on are watched before that’s three seasons and it will continue at some point it’s called occupied. It is, it’s the story of a, basically a, a Russian occupation of Norway, a Russia sort of acting at the behest of a European parliament to secure oil for the continent.

0

00:51:41
And how is it in Russia sort of pernicious activity increases and increases so that it becomes essentially an occupation of Norway over the span of I most of the season. And it, it follows several different characters, including the prime minister in a prominent journalist, his wife who owns a restaurant that serves Russians ran across the street from their embassy and a few other characters, a way that the Russian ambassador in a sort of follows each one of those as they are a process sort of this, what, what becomes essentially a, a, a pretty plausible occupation by a foreign power of a bit of a contemporary government.

0

00:52:33
And it plays a lot of, of course, on, on what we think w a sort of how we as Americans these days process Russia and how the Europeans, I think process Russia these days is a as a bad actor. And it, it, it explores, I think fairly well. The, the, the notion that, you know, this, this could happen. What if this happens, what is this look like?

0

00:53:03
What, what does a, a sort of a modern sort of start to a, a war over civilized countries, quote, unquote, what does that look like? How does it play out? And it’s, it’s really well plotted. The, the character is in the, and the situations. Sometimes they come a little cartoonish, particularly in the second and third Susan’s were, the prime minister is sort of goes on the run and ends up like living in the woods for a while.

0

00:53:41
But the,

2

00:53:43
And it sounded like a 24, like projectory.

0

00:53:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there it does, it does get to be a little cartoonish, but, but the plot is good. And, and it, it ties in a lot of sort of high level issues from, from the Russian issue to energy and climate change and things like that. I think it’s pretty good. And one of the things I love about it is that it’s not afraid to kill off a major characters on a pretty regular

2

00:54:12
Basis. That’s how I was. How was fun? So what are you going to watch it? Well, what else are you going to talk about today is a show that didn’t originate on Netflix, but it has a hit Netflix recently is Cobra Kai for the first few seasons of that show us the first two seasons were on YouTube create. It was the sort of Anchor for their abortive attempt to create a premium channel of some sort that nobody wanted to pay for.

2

00:54:50
But Cobra Kai was always the breakout, a bit of their programming. They’re it is a continuation, a sequel to the karate kid. Technically, I guess the karate kids series though, the first karate kid Moby is really the only one that matters as far as the show is concerned, which is appropriate because a it’s arguably the only one worth watching this series.

2

00:55:22
If they made a whole bunch of them, you could get by with riding it to, I suppose, but a three and four are gasoline. And also don’t, don’t really enter into the conversation here. So the third season of Cobra Kai has just come out and it’s no longer on YouTube. It is now a Netflix original, and yeah, it’s a Netflix show for its third season.

0

00:55:51
Oh, I think we lost, I think we lost Rob we’re going to try and get him back. He disappeared. Well, we’re going to learn more about Cobra Kai while they were like paused and stuff. Let me just say that what’s happening now on After Hours and Cocktail Hours, which are to have our podcasts. We do on this Sweet Tea Shakespeare Hours we’re going to start doing them live every time we broadcast, we are going to do the live on patriotic.

0

00:56:22
So you just click over I’m to patrion.com/sweet Tea. Shakespeare not a member. You can join up. You can see your live streams whenever they happen. And then both episodes After Hours and Cocktail Hours will appear on our Maine podcast, feed on an Apple and Spotify in wherever you get your podcast. And that’s a little, a bit of a change. And we invite anyone who is a patron patreon.com/sweet Tea Shakespeare. You can send us questions. You can help us decide what the show content is. Every week we’re gonna post a poll each week, so you can help us shape the show.

0

00:56:57
So that’s, what’s new in the Sweet Tea Shakespeare world. Hello. So sorry. Peter decided to do is get a restart. You’re back. I’m back. That’s good. Yeah. Sorry about that. No worries. You’re here. It’s delightful. We did it. We did do it. We’re going to do it again sometime. I will see you soon for the technical team

1

00:57:32
And you’ve been listening to the Sweet Tea Shakespeare After Hours thanks for joining us and for being a Patriot, if Sweet Tea Shakespeare catching next time.